(no subject)

[luna_manar]

So, I sortof kindof have a horrible secret. Well, not really a secret, but this is not something I would just say, I don't think, in mixed company.

While I think that all rape jokes are offensive, I also think some of them are funny as shit. And I do not think that every joke with the word "rape" in it is actually a joke about rape (see: Raped to Sleep By Dickwolves).

Now...if jokes with the word rape in them are just universally offensive to you to the point you can't laugh at them, ever, that's fine. If I say such a joke around you and you say "I don't think that's funny, could you not do that around me?" that's fine. I have no desire to hurt anyone, and I won't make jokes with the word rape around you if I know they hurt you.

But I really, really hate getting into the same tired old argument that if I think any joke with "rape" in it is funny (let's be honest here, I even occasionally think jokes about rape are funny in certain contexts, my apologies to, I dunno, Satan), I must think it's funny when people get raped. This is patently false, and I can't really justify a reason for the discrepancy. I'm not sure it has anything to do with reason, frankly, and I can't turn it off, no matter how much I "educate" myself about how Incredibly Horribly Unspeakably Awful rape is.

Maybe I just haven't internalized it correctly, though. Maybe some form of education would actually change my mind. A lot of people who have been raped have told me that I wouldn't be singing the same tune if I were them. Maybe they're right. Maybe if I got raped more often, I would understand.

(See what I did there?)

Comments

[aeslis]

The really simple answer is that when people joke about rape, they're making light of it. To make light of rape in popular culture makes it more socially acceptable to think of it as "not so serious", and when people tell rape jokes, a LOT of the time the offended party is told, "Hey, it was just a joke, don't take it so seriously." But to them, it's serious. Now, you understand the concept of not wanting to offend people, and can be considerate to that. That's already many, many steps above a lot of people. But there's a far deeper problem, especially with rape jokes.

One thing that a lot of people don't understand is this: not all women think that men are rapists. But all rapists think that other men are rapists. And when they hear men telling rape jokes, they hear it as support. They hear men (or women) making rape funny, and in a way condoning it, and they think those people think like they do. It perpetuates rape in such a way.

I don't think that people who tell rape jokes think REAL rape is funny. It doesn't correlate like that. But if people tell rape jokes, they are aiding rape culture and making rape more acceptable to think lightly of.

[luna_manar]

See, and that totally makes sense to me. But it doesn't change my knee-jerk snicker reaction to "that [name of video game monster] just totally raped your face." My response is usually to laugh and say, "yes, yes it did!"

It just doesn't register to me as a rape joke, but it has the word "rape" in it, and admittedly, it's the word "rape" that made me laugh at it (well, okay, "your face" was the other half of that).

[aeslis]

I guess it's like how the game 'Hangman' is so common that it doesn't actually seem as morbid as it really is. There's a sort of glamour on it that keeps you from thinking about the true implications of what's being said. But it's there, whether or not we think about it.

I know I already explained, but this particular quote explains it more eloquently, though it does use some shaming language at the end.

Really, you might not consider a rape joke, but... it is a joke that is based around the concept of rape. So whether or not you consider it a rape joke, other people will. And that's the important part, isn't it?

[luna_manar]

Kind of. Since the meaning is determined entirely by perception, the context culture brings to it, and whatever intention might be behind it, I'd say what's "important" isn't its interpretation (or which interpretation is correct) so much as its measurable effect. Does it actually contribute to enabling rapists and the disempowerment of women and victims of rape?

If the joke was made in a public forum where anyone could be listening, the answer is almost certainly "yes." But between two people who themselves would never rape anyone or laugh at a rape joke in public or condone anyone saying "monsters raped your face" outside any circle that condemns actual rape? ...I don't know.

Also, I think there is a difference between disparaging jokes and jokes we make precisely because the subject is an uncomfortable one. Making light of something awful that happen(s/ed) is cathartic for many people. A friend of mine was in a very dark place in high school, and attempted suicide as a result. One of the ways he helped himself out of his depression afterward was by writing stand-up comedy about suicide. It was the sort of thing that might really upset some people, because...it's suicide, it's not funny, right? But it was one of the things that honestly seemed to help him work his way through the ordeal, and he's a lot better for it. I don't think I would have told him he shouldn't do it because someone somewhere might have committed suicide if they saw his act (which he only ever put on in private, for his friends, who all understood it wasn't something to just go out and repeat to the world).

I'm just really uncomfortable with the idea that awful things, even really awful things, can never, ever be funny, and that if you find them funny, ever, you're part of the problem, rather than just being human. I think what makes a person part of the problem is how they handle their reactions and what they do with their feelings, not whether or not they have them.